[revival-fire] The Lord is changing his church

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Hi, David (and everybody!) --

David's recent revival-fire post (quoted below) is both excellent and valuable! (If you haven't read it, consider doing so! Be open -- he makes a lot of sense.)

I wanted to comment on one TINY part of it -- where David says the following:

On Jul 17, 2008, at 1:20 PM, David Webb wrote:

     We should never evaluate church by the quality of the meetings but by the impact in the nation.

I know this line has a nice "ring" to it, but in one sense, it doesn't mean anything.

Look at it this way: When it comes to "evaluating church", whose task is that?

(And who is the "we"?)

We may "judge a prophecy" (1Cor 14) or "know" [epiginosko] the "ravening wolves" by their fruits (Mt 7)... And we'll even judge the angels in the next world...

. . . but I'm not sure you (or I) are called to "evaluate the church".

But, then -- if you or I or even others do NOT "evaluate the church", who does?

The Spirit if the Lord.

Here's a thought: The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil represents where we (or Daddy dearest) took upon ourselves the responsibility of spiritual judgment, removing ourselves from dependence upon our discerning the judgment of the Spirit.

For us to "evaluate the church", we'd need a clear and accurate standard -- and the standard isn't what impact on the nation we see and personally determine is significant... There's no person who has an understanding of our times that is broad enough and deep enough to even accurately assess what the "church's impact on the nation" is.

For that assessment, we must rely on the discernment of the Holy Spirit. And for that matter, the only safe and accurate assessment of the "church" is what the Holy Spirit tells us.

SUMMARY?

IMHO, what the Church needs is not for people to "evaluate it" or to "evaluate" its "impact on the nation"... what the Church needs is to incline Her ear to hear the evaluation -- and the direction -- of the Holy Spirit.

The Caveat: But most Christendom has an invested interested in not only NOT "hearing" the HS's "evaluation" but in assuming any such evaluation would only authenticate their existing theologies, rituals, programs and paradigms,

Emil & Shell Swift

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  	From: 	  davidwebb.j2i@gmail.com 

Subject: [revival-fire] The Lord is changing his church

Date: July 17, 2008 1:20:40 PM PDT

To:   revival-fire@hub.xc.org

Reply-To:   davidwebb.j2i@gmail.com

Recent emails about quiting church and following Jesus, seem to echo a familiar cry from many who still believe but have had enough of Church as we know it. I am currently moving to a new district of Thessaloniki, (Greece) which translates "New Roots". The Lord spoke "It's time for new roots" …Isaiah 54.

I see and hear of weariness that people are experiencing across the church and many feel about the church, recent postings confirm this; these are not isolated individuals but represent I believe 10's of thousands of people who have had enough. I understand there are many who are currently experiencing great things and some churches are clearly enjoying significant presence, however as I look at the western church I see people tired of the show. We are an incredibly well fed generation and yet are in some way obese, my conviction is that obesity is not so much about input but about output.

The message we have been given can change the world. I'd go so far as to say the state of a nation reflects the state of the church. We should never evaluate church by the quality of the meetings but by the impact in the nation. We will see if we have introverted an extravert message, made it the property of a few and turned the church into club for the initiated. People get (fat &) weary when there is no place for them to fulfil their role in the ongoing story of eternity.

God is doing something new. My take on Lakeland is that it is a fantastic finale God has prepared for the closure of an era. This era has seen the church preoccupied with meetings and events, NOW a new season is emerging. I expect in little more than 5 years, the church will bear little resemblance to what it is today and in 20 years be a totally different radical church sweeping across the western world. Make no mistake about it the church in the West is currently considered irrelevant by those who are not connected. The church may feel important but in reality it is trapped in its small ghetto.

So what about the NEW roots … It's time to be planted out so that new roots can grow. A new generation will take hold off the power and presence of God in a radical way. They will see that the message must move from the church into the World. The new generation will find incredible favour with those in positions of power and influence and instead of becoming leaders in church will find themselves influencing and guiding governmental authorities; world systems; the business and recreation world, they will find themselves walking with groups of disciples and many following after them. This is church, uncontrollable; profoundly spiritual; life-changing; powerful; effective, deliberate and relevant. There will be a place to meet to celebrate but instead of being celebration DRIVEN it will be nation changing, Spirit led, an inter-dependant people centred church.

This is where questions of character arise. The new era will be marked by Character, not personality. People with strength of character will build with purpose a church marked by maturity. Gideon's will tear down idols; Samuel's will release the Lord's anointed; Peter's and Paul's will take the anointing and proclaim to a generation who have never known the Life message. People who know God and work in partnership with other body parts will be at the heart of this. Submitting to one-another so that a Holy Spirit filled generation can bring LIFE to our weary and frightened neighbours!

New roots are established through planting out. If we embrace and flow with the change it will take a renewal of the mind. God is saying Enlarge – "It's time for new roots!" …Isaiah 54.  
--
David Webb
Thessaloniki; Greece
www.fromj2i.net

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